Windows XP + Saitek Cyborg USB Gold - MORE INFO (long)

[Spksh]

Hey guys, I do Win9x/WinXP third-tier support for a living. I've been doing a little digging on this issue in our internal dBase, because I plan to buy this stick, and I wanted to know why it wasn't working correctly on some systems.

All of the following is based on some quick research and is my interpretation only.

From what I've seen, a few people have been getting issues where the stick will not be detected when Windows XP is restarted, or goes into hibernation/sleep mode. Most people have been fixing this my unplugging and replugging the stick on reboot.

Basically, as the Saitek support guys have said, this isn't strictly an issue w/ their stick, but rather a complication created with certain hardware configurations. But this isn't strictly an enumeration issue either.

Windows XP is a lot more ruthless when it comes to hardware. It doesn't treat hardware and drivers in the nice touchy feely way that Win9x does, which is why it's much more stable and why it makes much better use of hardware resources.

What's going on is this (and please correct me if you have better data). There's been multiple standards for USB controllers, the latest being EHCI (Enhanced Host Controller Interface), which is what Windows XP likes to use. Older specs are UHCI and OHCI.

Under OHCI and UHCI, it was the job of the BIOS or USB controller to 'remember' the enumeration data for each USB device attached when the system entered a different power management state (shutdown, restart, sleep etc). Under EHCI, the OS retains the enumeration data itself.

When WinXP shuts down with an OHCI or UHCI USB controller, by default it expects the controller to handle the enumeration data of each device attached. When WinXP boots back up, it expects the USB controller to hand it the enumeration data right away, and when that doesn't happen, you get a bang (exclamation point) in Device Manager, or other weirdness.

We've seen this happen with a whole bunch of different devices and in different configurations (printers, scanners, cameras, USB network adapters etc). As some of you have pointed out, other USB devices work fine. I have no explanation for this, other than to point to the chaos theory in action.

My hypothesis is this:

By default, WinXP uses power management for USB devices. Thus, when it shuts down, the OS tells the USB controller to turn off all devices attached to it. It then expects to have the enumeration data handed to it when it boots back up again, instead of having to redetect all the USB devices. Some USB controller/BIOS combinations are better at responding to this request than others. Some USB devices are better at being turned off by the controller than others.

Unplugging the device and replugging it causes Windows to go through the enumeration process itself, thus redetecting the device.

Win9x does not use power management for USB devices. There's no option for this at all. Thus, when it shuts down, the OS expects to have to redetect all USB devices on the next reboot.

Solution:

1) Turn off Power Management on the USB hub that the stick is attached to (already suggested by one poster previously).

2) Get a BIOS update or driver update for the USB Controller that resolves the power management issue. VIA provides one of these for their USB chipsets.

Turning off power management doesn't do anything weird to windows, and won't cause any issues later on. All you're doing is telling Windows to not rely on the USB controller for saved enumeration data. So this is probably the quickest fix.

Info:

Disabling Power Management:

Right-click My Computer
Choose Properties
Change to the Hardware tab
Click "Device Manager"
Expand "USB Controllers"
Open "USB Root Hub"
Change to the Power Management tab
Uncheck "Allow computer to turn off this device"
Click "OK" until you get back to the desktop
Restart WinXP

Websites:
http://www.guidenet.net/resources/usb.html
http://www.hp.com/cposupport/scanners/support_doc/bps05332.html
http://www.usbman.com/winxpusbguide.htm
http://www.viaarena.com/?PageID=71#usb

Power management rules for USB host controllers transitioning from
USB suspend to USB working. This is what is expected for:


Sleep State S3
Sleep State S0


1. The controller must not reset the USB bus or cause a disconnect or
power loss on any of the root USB ports.

2. The system BIOS must not enable any type of legacy USB BIOS or
otherwise enable the host controller to a run state.

3. If a Peripheral Component Interconnect (PCI) reset occurs in
addition to rule 1, the BIOS must restore all host registers to their
state prior to entering low power. Root ports should not indicate
connect or enable status changes.

4. The controller hardware must be in a functional state that is
capable of driving resume and entering the run state without requiring
a global hardware reset that otherwise would result in a USB bus reset
driven on the root ports.


Comments? Suggestions?

-Spksh

[Spksh]

Just picked up the Cyborg 3D USB Gold.

Struggled to get it installed for 2 hours... until I realised I was plugging in the scanner and not the stick :rolleyes:

Downloaded the latest software package, extracted everything out using WinZip, and installed the drivers through DevMan, for the stick and for the HID device.

Installed rest of the setup software after a reboot and test.

Had to disable power management on the USB root hub that the stick was attached to, in order to get it to redetect properly on reboot.

All is well, and Heavy Gear II is *much* more fun to play.

Thanks Saitek! :cool:

[Spksh]

Had some weird issues getting it installed (the installer would lock, the drivers wouldn't install etc).

Here's what I did:

Downloaded SD03 and, using WinZip, extracted all the files to a temp directory.

I ran the setup from the DRIVERS folder (not the main folder) and plugged in the stick. I force-installed the drivers by pointing Windows to C:\Program Files\Saitek\...\Drivers. This installed the stick (this procedure is noted in the README file for the drivers).

Windows gave a "Code 10 Unable to start device" error, so I unplugged and replugged the stick. Windows detected the HID portion of the device and installed generic drivers. I updated the driver, and force-installed the drivers by pointing Windows to C:\Program Files\Saitek\...\Drivers. This installed the HID component, but I got another Code 10 error until I again unplugged and replugged the device.

Then I went back to the temp directory, and ran the setup for the SST software in the other folder.

I went back into Device Manager and disabled Power Management for the USB hub, and reboot.

Drivers stayed installed, device worked normally, and the Saitek start-up app loaded w/out error.

Everything works great, although I haven't tried the SST software as the game I use recognizes all the stick's functions.

[Spksh]

Well, got the magic keyboard/mouse to show up, so now I can program everything, which is cool.

All I did was unplug the stick, re-run the SD03 setup, plug the stick back in when I was prompted, and said "yes, I REALLY want to install this driver" a lot.

So, now it all works.

[tman]

There have been a lot of posts about this issue in XP and other OS's. I was having the same problem until the release of the new drivers which allow you to use the Renum command to access the joystick without unplugging and replugging it. I dislike having to keep typing this command at a Run window so I wrote a .bat file that contains the following:

C:\windows\system32\Renum.exe (or wherever renum resides)
exit

Save this file as renum.bat in your c drive, then drop a shortcut to it into your startup menu and it will run everytime you start the machine - voilla, instant joystick fix.

Hope this helps

T

[oztech]

i helped someone today that had this problem and told them to disable the power management on the root hub.
after that it detected on startup and reboots.
(using the windows drivers)

they are now trying it with the saitek SD drivers to see if that works aswell.

[Paul Roberts]

Hi all,

I seem to be in the minority in that my stick still doesn't work after disabling power management in all my USB root hubs. I continue to get a yellow "!" in Device Manager every time I boot.

Sometimes--only sometimes--I'm able to disable and then re-enable the stick and then have it work perfectly. Most of the time, however, it comes back with the same yellow warning sticker when I re-enable.

What's the next step?

Should I go to DirectX 9? Is it a (gulp!) BIOS issue? Are there drivers (perhaps USB drivers) I'm overlooking?

Thanks for any advice!


My system:

Gateway 2.4 GHz Pentium 4
Windows XP home
DirectX 8.1
512MB RAM
ATI Radeon 9800 Pro 128MB video card
ATI Catalyst 3.6 Drivers
(nothing overclocked)

[Spksh]

Hey Paul,

DX won't do much for you. DX deals with input from the stick, not hardware detection. From what you say, if you unplug and plug the stick back in, it works?

I'd look on the manufacturer's site for your model and download any USB updates they have.

If they have an updated BIOS you might want to do that too, especially if it updates antying USB-related.

Also, check in your BIOS for any USB settings (legacy USB etc) and try playing with those to see what happens.

Could go one step further and find updates for the USB controller itself, from the manufacturer of that device, rather than Gateway's site, just to see what it does.

Are you running Service Pack 1? You using a USB 2.0 controlller?

[embries]

I'm still having this problem. I have an ASUS A7V333 and A7N8XDeluxe. The standard party line that it's a hardware issue just doesn't cut the mustard. These two boards use the 2 largest chipsets out there right now for AMD. VIA and NVidia. To say that VIA and NVidia are incompatible with this stick is to say that 98.95% of AMD systems are not compatible with this stick. I give up. I'm thoroughly disappointed, however, it is to be expected in this business. But I will join the hundreds of people who will never buy another Saitek product. Sure hundreds of upset customers out of thousands of customers is not that big of a deal, still yet (as others have so simply stated) blaming the problem on XP or my hardware is rediculous, becuase the 2 major competitors have equimpent that works fine on 100% of systems. Bah humbug to Saitek.

[Paul Roberts]

After some fooling around, I have found a variation on the "disable/enable" trick that seems to work for me every time.

What DIDN'T work: going into Device Manager and disabling the line for the joystick, then enabling it again. This just left me with the yellow alert sticker with which I'd started.

What DID work: ignore the joystick in Device Manager. Instead, scroll down and disable the exact USB Root Hub where the stick is installed (even though it doesn't have a yellow alert), then re-enable it. When I do this, the joystick has lost its alert status and works perfectly.

I hope this helps someone else.

[ChaotiX]

i did all the things that ase posted here !!! but nothing worked...
i will never buy again something of saitek.

[Spksh]

Hey ChaotiX,

If you could post your system specs, OS, mainboard + chipset etc, maybe we could offer some suggestions.

[embries]

Take your pick of equipment.

System 1
ASUS A7N8X Deluxe (NFORCE2)
ATI Radeon 97000 Pro
Win XP Pro

System 2
ASUS A7V333 (via KT333 chipset)
GeForce 4 Ti 4600
Win XP Pro

System 3
Epox 8RDA
Radeon 8500 128mb
Win XP

Didn't work on any of them without unplugging/replugging constantly. Tried renum, no go. Tried disabling power management, nada. Tried setting my joystick on fire, not flammable.

[ChaotiX]

intel pentium 4 , 2.40 GHZ

MSI P4 Mainboard
intel 845e chipset based
845e Max2

usb 2.0

directx 9.0b

geforce ti4200

512ddr-ram

winXP pro + some updates

(no problem with usb-device , only with this Stick)

[Spksh]

Do you have SP1 installed?

I'm curious as to what the exact problem is. Can you not get it installed? Do you lose it on reboot?

Did you install the software before plugging the stick in? Tried a different port (usually only a couple of the ports on a mainboard are USB2.0)?

Have you tried everything from scratch? Uninstall the stick (and all its components) from Device Manager, and uninstall the Saitek software, install the latest saitek drivers, plug the stick back in?

Also... what options for USB do you have in the BIOS? Tried toggling any of them?

My system:

Abit KD-7e mainboard (via KT333 chipset)
1gb KVR DDR2100 RAM
Abit geforce4 Ti 4200
WinXP Pro SP1a
DX9.0b

Works fine, bear to install.

[embries]

I have SP1 installed. I have tried every USB port on each machine. Basically, the stick is never detected after reboot. I have to physically unplug it, and reconnect it to the machine several times before it is recognized on any of the machines in question. It's just plain silly. It takes me about 20 minutes to get the dam joystick working when I want to play.

[ChaotiX]

it is the xp reboot problem, the stick works perfektly but after a reboot i have tho deactivate an reactivate the stick in the device-manager !!! if u mean the sd , saitek driver ... yes i have installed it !!!

[Storm]

Ok, to reactivate this thread - does anyone have an idea, when this issue will be fixed ? Im just wondering why those problems dont happen with other sticks, so it must be saitek related.

Is there any possibility, saitek can fix this on the current released joysticks, or do you think the driver isnt the answer and we all need to buy a new hardware whenever this will be done ?

On the CD is some text like: "Saitek Smart Technology - Minimum Install, Maximum Power". Ok, who wrote that ?
On the Box they say "Works with Windows 98, Me, 2000 and XP". However i plugged the stick right after i bough it yesterday and it didnt work on the first try. I called the support line and after i replugged the line for a 3rd time, the stick was found and worked.

I dont want a workaround for the stick, i want a fix - and ill bring the stick back today, because it isnt just plug and play - i always need to do something to get this stick work.


What about other cyborg 3d user ? Noone posted here since a few weeks - is your problem solved by just using "renum" or the "power off" configuration in root-hub ?


Regards,
Juergen

[Blockade]

......by the way, i read through Saitek's FAQS page and all the troubleshooting guide, they dont even mention this "USB" problem, event though this forum is running as the "official forum" I bet you, they(Saitek) dont even read this stuff here, since they dont care, otherwise, it would be in the FAQ on their website.
And yes, i am Very Happy for the people (suppose to be millions ...right?) who has this joystick working with no problem. Somebody was posting that, they sold millions of these. And we are the unimportant minority with these problems.

So how come that there are not too many posts on this forum?

BECAUSE, most likely, most people dont even know about this forum exist or doesn't know how to post or dont want to register to this forum.

So I'm sure other people gave up on this joystick, they just chucked it silently or returned it and bought a different one.

I will make some use of it too, like throw it at a racoon or give it to my 2 yr old cousin, and have HIM fix it. Tomorrow.

[UKSupport]

Blockade - your unconstructive posts are amounting to flame-filled rants so I've removed them. We understand you're unhappy with the problems you're having with the stick but unfortunately there is no way to fix the fault that is occurring and shooting off about it all over the forum isn't going to help anyone - continue and you will be banned from posting.

Yes, there are many, many customers who do not have this issue and yes, there are an unfortunate few who do - we're not ignoring those of you who do have the problem and we don;t think you're unimportant; there's just no way to fix it! It's not something that can be fixed by a driver update as the problem is occurring at a base hardware level, before drivers even come into it - if you've read through all the posts about this problem like you seem to have then you should at least have grasped that.

Please take the stick back to the store and exchange it for a different one - none of the rest of our range have this problem; like the Cyborg Evo for example, which would be a great alternative. If you're having problems getting an exchange then get in touch with our US office (as I believe you are in the US, right?) on support@saitek.com and they should be able to help you, provided you have your purchase receipt.

[Blockade]

you can go ahead and ban me if you want. i couldnt care less.

If you are really a saitek staff member then you should know that this problem should be in your General FAQ on the Saitek.com site.

What i'm furious about is, that the blame that, goes to AMD and Windows XP as a hardware/software incompatibility. It's not the AMD/XP not supporting this joystick, IT'S the joystick not supporting the AMD/XP setup.
It should be on the Joystick package, informing the buyers about not fully compatable with AMD CPU/WindowsXP setup and some may experience of Windows XP not detecting the joystick after a reboot.
If i would have known this- trust me- i wouldnt have a joystick that says Cyborg 3D.
But now i'm stuck with it, i have been unpluging re-plugging the thing for the past 7 months and i'm entirely sick of it.
As i said, go ahead and ban me for letting everybody know that their joystick IS the problem not their PC setup.

[Storm]

Blockade,

if you read the boards you would have seen that we all know IT IS truly the joystick. But theres no fix for it, because the hardware of the stick is too old to be fully compatible with your system.
On some it works, on some not. Maybe its working on intel only, i dont know. I use AMD so it should be right.

Tell me if im wrong, but the only way to fix it, is to get another stick. UKSupport told you to send them the purchase receipt and they will probably help you out of this...


Regards,
Storm

P.S. i already returned the stick and maybe the evo is better supported :) However, wasnt yet available in germany last week.

[Blockade]

Ok. In my pissed off search of solutions, i might have came up with a possible fix. Last night i figured, i'm gonna screw around with the drivers to see what's happening.
I changed a few things and today i turned my computer on and my joystick is recognized right away. Check below, what i did.

First i disconnected the joystick and restarted the PC.

Right click My Computer - go to Hardware tab. Click Device Manager - Scroll down to the bottom, where all the USB Devices listed. Expand the list. Now comes a tricky part.

On that list, you should see your "USB Root Hub"s Listed. Following them, there should be such a thing called as
"VIA Rev 5 or later USB Universal Host Controller".

I have 2 of those, it depends how many USB connection you have on your PC.

What you are will look for is the thing called "Standard Enhanced PCI to USB Host Controller."


What i did, i updated the driver for that by clicking "update driver and click on "install from a specific location".

Next i clicked the "Don't Search I will choose the driver to Install"
then on the next screen i unchecked the "show compatable hardware".

On the next menu, i clicked on the Via Technologies and on the right i scrolled down to the "Via USB Enhanced Host Controller".

Clicked on that, then it told me that the driver i'm installing is not compatable or something, but i ignored that and continued installing the driver.
After that i rebooted my computer and plugged in my joystick(plug in AFTER the system is running).
The PC detected it then configured it.

Today i just turned on my PC and the Joystick is present.

I'm not sure if this gives ideas to people, they should definetely check those drivers out for the USB controllers.

[Blockade]

Here is my results with the new driver of the VIA enhanced USB host Controller

[UKSupport]

Starting with the USB Human Interface Device, right click on it and choose Update Driver from the drop-down list of options.

On the window that comes up select Install from a list or specific location and then click Next.

On the next window select Don't search. I will choose the driver to install and then click Next.

On the next screen you should have two options, one of which is the name of your controller. Select it and then click Next, then click Continue Anyway on the Windows driver signing warning and then finally finish when it has finished installing. If the name of your controller wasn’t there then click Have Disk and point it to the C:\Program Files\Saitek\Drivers\Inf directory and OK that - you should then have the option of your controller there for you.

Once you've updated both that and the HID Compliant Game Controller you'll be able to program the stick.

[Sam]

Damn i just got the stick yesterday after readin several posts i gotta question:-

U say Disable that USB Option. ok i done that but should of i done that before the install of the stick or what, i have done it after rebooted, is there a way to activate the stick again? after i have rebooted turened the USB thingy off.

I really love the stick and really hope i get it to work, i wanna go own some ppl on BF:1942!!!

well ne answers would be gr8 thanks

sam.

:rolleyes:

[Blockade]

Those screens only applies if you have a VIA chipset on your motherboard with AMD.

If you have a Pentium based computer, you shouldn't have any problems. I have 2 computers one of them PIII and an AMD. I have the Cyborg 3D gold connected to the PIII computer and it runs fine without ever need to unplug.
on my AMD, i have a Saitek Forcefeedback joystick. I had to manually install the drivers to it.


By the way, what i posted, it isn't guaranteed to work. That setup either works or not.

Best way to deal with the Cyborg 3D gold (if you have an AMD chip) is to unplug and re-plug when you restart your computer.

[Sam]

ok i got it to work (finnaly) but my bro unplugged the stick now when i re plug it in i get a erro messgae saying error your stick might not work properly, how do i get the message not to show up?

[UKSupport]

Have you disabled the power management on all USB Root Hubs in Device Manager?

[Sam]

ok i got it working after some ammounts of in-stalling re-installing, but hey

THANK YOU SOO MUCH

i love this stick (cyborg 3d plat) cheap comphy! and good quality!

:D

[keithj]

I bought a Cyborg 3D USB Gold a few months ago (and bitterly regret it).

It worked for the first few weeks (as long as I unplugged it before starting the PC, and plugged it in afterwards), so I threw away the packaging and the invoice (big mistake!) Then I upgraded to Win XP Pro, with SP1 and all the patches.

I now have all the same problems as above, except that none of those solutions fix it. The suggested driver change on the USB hub stopped the hub working at all, so I had to go back to the XP standard one.

I've tried all the recommendations, in every possible order, many times. None work. If I could get it to work at all I'd be happy - I moved the second USB hub onto the desk so I can unplug and reconnect it easily, but that doesn't make it work now anyway.

My only unique symptom is that three driver files the joystick wants, hidusb.sys, hidclass.sys, and hidp****.sys, are already on the machine. Whatever I do, even manually, the PC will restore the old versions to the windows\system32\drivers directory. I don't even know where XP keeps getting the old versions from!

The install routine for the joystick says it's installing new files with those names, but they never appear - neither in the drivers folder, nor in the Trash Bin.

I think the only answer is to throw the Saitek in the bin and go and buy something else from a different manufacturer. It's very annoying that Saitek can't find out why their product doesn't work in these circumstances - or why they didn't withdraw it from sale once they realised it has a fundamental problem with XP.

I read on the forum that it's an old product - mine isn't: I bought it in August 2003 - but the receipt and the box are gone :-( so the local shop won't take it back.

Has anyone any ideas, before the @&!$ thing goes in the bin? I wrote to Saitek Help, and the only help on offer was to refer me back here.

More to the point, has anyone any recommendations for a 3-axis and throttle joystick with a few buttons and a "twist for rudder" control that WILL work? Anything up to £75 is OK.

It's a pity, because this one is an excellent physical design, and would be perfect for what I want it for (Instrument Flying practice to keep my instrument rating current).

[keithj]

Solved it! A genuine Saitek rep e-mailed to say the Cyborg 3D USB Gold won't work with XP, so send it back for a refund.

I asked around for advice, and the word everywhere seemed to be "get the Cyborg Evo". I wasn't too sure, after the experience of my previous Saitek purchase (only a few months ago) but I weakened and bought an Evo.

It's brilliant! The lights are a bit OTT, but it worked perfectly straight out of the box. I can now fly MSFS and X-Plane, and do my IFR practice.

Well done, Saitek! Pity the 3D USB Gold box doesn't say "Not suitable for Windows XP", but the Evo is IT.

[Cuchillo]

I really tried. I searched in this forum for different solutions, tried them all + some of my own, nothing helped.
Well... I give up this stick now. It´s really annoying to have a perfectly working piece of hardware that won´t work properly with the rest of your computer. I really like this stick. I do. But if it doesn´t work, well, there´s not much to do about. As most people I know run WinXP there not even anyone I can give it to :(

This is what screw things up:

Intel 850E chipset + Windows Xp = no working Saitek 3D USB Gold.

[damaja]

Does this mean my Cyborg Gold will not work with XP? At all?!?! I was looking foward to finally playing with it, and now I am feeling I have just wasted my money. And I don't have the option to get refund on it. Thanks a lot saitek!!

[keithj]

Afraid so. Cyborg 3D USB Gold doesn't work with XP (unless you're incredibly lucky), and there's no fix if it doesn't work.

It wasn't that expensive: I paid about £19 for mine, so that's probably $19 for the folks in the USA, and Euros 19 for the Europeans.

The Evo was just over £30, but since it works I'm happy. The shop didn't want to take back the Cyborg USB, so it went into the bin. Some you win, some you lose. I look upon it that I have a £50 Cyborg Evo.

[adkatchi]

Get the retailer to exchange it, maybe with a letter from saitek. If not get saitek to excahnge it with something... if its bought fairly recently that is ....

[adkatchi]

its only £30
:)
but some driver issues... seems to be sorted now though

[keithj]

Oh yes, the Evo is fine. Very good, in fact. If I'd bought that first time, I'd be delighted.

[damaja]

Originally posted by adkatchi
Get the retailer to exchange it, maybe with a letter from saitek. If not get saitek to excahnge it with something... if its bought fairly recently that is ....

I bought it off amazon and cannot refund it!!! What a waste!!! I am going to steer clear of Saitek from now on.

[UKSupport]

You can't exchange it? Huh?

Send it back and arrange to exchange for the evo - the Gold is only one of our controllers to have this issue and it only affects a small number of people.

[adkatchi]

Sell it online then ....
there are loads of ppl who dont use xp!

[L0rd.at]

hi

i downloaded the saitek drivers for the 3d usb gold - but if i try to install there comes up an error message: fehlermeldung: internes versagen

i had to format my pc - before the joystick went w/o problems but sinde reinstall i even cannot install the drivers

plz help

WINXP PRO + SP1 + all fixes

[Littlebeard]

I wished I could help...

I'm one off the "unlucky" as well.
Can't get the stick working again, been reading all posts, been trying everything possible... Untill now didn't get a reply to my mail to Saitek...
I tried to reach the Belgian retailer and explained the problem. Hopefully they will exchange the stick for another model. (I didn't keep my box and reciept :( )

I gave up!

Little

[keithj]

If you can take it back and exchange it for an Evo, do. You won't be disappointed (I'm very pleased with the Evo).

Otherwise, put it down to experience, throw it away, and buy an Evo.

There ain't no third way. However many drivers you download, and however many times you try, the 3D Gold isn't going to work with XP (or anything similarly recent). I know - I'm the man who spent a whole weekend trying everything several times and writing down what I'd tried, so that I could make sure I'd done everything.

[Littlebeard]

Believe me or not... I'm trying for 4 months now!
(don't usualy give up easy)

Little

[keithj]

Exactly. Some things can't be done, and that's one. Go for the Evo. It's as good as the 3D Gold is bad.

[L0rd.at]

i cant take it bad its a boud half a year since i bought i think

[keithj]

Mit Unterstützung des Herstellers kann das Ding noch ausgetauscht werden. Hier in England, wenigstens.

Würde ich empfehlen.

[Littlebeard]

Well, I bought it last november...
Because I planned on buying a new computer in januari, that's why I waited a bit longer when the trouble began. I thought I'd try with the new one, but it didn't change much...

For me it just wouldn't feel right, if they didn't let me exchange it. It's a great stick.... when you get it to work. And it should allways work! I paid for it, and above that, it probably has cost me a few days off my life. (at least) Sometimes I have been very, very close to smashing it into the wall...:rolleyes:

Noone at Saitek can say they don't know this problem, that's why I'm convinced I'll be able to exchange it. Any other answer would be extremely rude towards a (disapointed) customer.

I'll keep you all informed.

Little

[Gaurdian14]

i was having the same problems you are haveing and after reading the solutions you guys posted i tried several and nothing happened so just wondering if it worked i unplugged then replugged and it worke dlike a dream so i dunno what it was but a combination of many fix's made it work

[L0rd.at]

yeah but its annoying to de- and reactivate the stick to work

[Littlebeard]

Well, for me it doesn't work...
Usualy, once my system does not recognise the stick anymore, I used to unplug and plug in, and sometimes (but seldom) after 30 or 40 times, the miracle happened.

It's weird, but when I try to plug the stick in a few days later, most off the time it works. Well, sort off works, because then it appears in connected devices, but game profiler doesn't work because "no Saitek device is connected"... :rolleyes:

I have installed and uninstalled latest drivers on and on again (also tried all possible old drivers), but can't get the installation finished. It just goes to the point where I have to plug the device in, and then... nothing. (except for the annoying XP balloon telling me there's a problem with the stick, as if I didn't know...)

I can't solve it, and apparently noone else can provide me with a solution. I've spoken to the retailer a few minutes ago, and I'll bring him the joystick this evening. I hope to exchange it for an Evo. If that is not possible, I will never spend another cent to a Saitek device ever again, I assure you...

Little

[L0rd.at]

for me i cant even install drivers i use the device USB + HID ( Human Interface Device)

[keithj]

No, the only answer if you have this problem is to take it back and swap it for an Evo.

My understanding and experience is that Saitek will honour this.

The Evo is excellent, and I've had no trouble at all with mine.

[Marshfamily]

I have followed ALL the instructioins and yesterday it worked fine but when I turned the PC on today it reverted back to the same problems as before ie error cod 10 the yellow asterisk beside the HID in device manager.

I am now so frustrated with this can anyone help?

David Marsh

[UKSupport]

Hi,

I'm afraid if none of this helped then there's nothing that can be done. Does unplugging and reinserting the stick not get Windows recognising it correctly again?

[Taki]

Read the long threat and same Problem to me.

Downloaded the latest Driver for my VIa Chipset. Downlaoded the Latest USB Driver for my Board. Got newst Software for my Stick from Saitek HP.

Always the Same. Error Code 10 . Joystick cant be startet :mad: After unpluggin and pluging it again it works fine again.

Tell me what to do or i will sell it on Ebay and never will buy a Saitek Produkt again. No x52 or x45. Support is one of the thinks i like with Joysticks.

So plz go trough with me what i could have missed :mad:

[Taki]

Nothing to say to this Post?

Ok. Goodbye saitek Controller.

WIll never miss him. :mad:

[UKSupport]

Hi,

You were posting over the weekend - there's no one here on the weekend so that's why there was no response.

If you've read the whole thread then you will see that there are some people who find that this issue will not go away. If that's the case then you need to return the stick to the store and exchange it for something that will work fine - i.e. any of the rest of our range.

[Taki]

Sorry but i dont have the buying Bill left. Got the Stick for half a Year now and its fine sometimes.

Most of the TImes i got COnncetion Problems. Im in the German National Team for IL2 its bad to Join a Game and then the Stick dont work on Startup.

Its no good PR if that happens.

What does Microsoft say to the Problem? Is it some far Day maybe working?

sry fior my Bad English. Its you to look fo that Problem...

[UKSupport]

The problem is occurring at a basic hardware level - the hardware in the Cyborg Gold is now over 6 years old - it was one of the original USB sticks. XP does things very differently to other operating systems when it comes to USB device detection, as has been stated earlier in this thread, and a combination of that with the old hardware in the stick results in the problems that some Cyborg Gold owners experience. There's nothing that anyone can do about this I'm afraid.

[The_Saint]

Plugging the Cyborg 3D Gold into a USB hub extension works for me every time without having to fiddle about with device managers etc.

[anvil]

I have not had any problem with my Saitek Cyborg USB Gold with my last two computers. Lol,, hoping that continues.

My question is to what drivers to use? When i changed hard drives i had some corrupted files. Alas my old drivers from last year were amonst them. I am redownloading the SD_WinXP_4_3_3_1727 drivers. But i noticed on the ftp that there were SD_WinXP_4_3_3_2000 as well which i had as well. Also I didn't see the SD_WinXP_4_3_3_2053.

So what are the latest and where can i get them?

Final question, can i just use the programming software, or do i need the Saitek drivers installed to use this software? The stock windows xp drivers seem to work just fine, but i cannot program my stick.

thanks in advance

anvil

[UKSupport]

The 4.3.3.1727 drivers and software are the ones to go for with the old Cyborg USB - you must have the drivers installed in order for the programming software to work.

[anvil]

thanks,, just curious,, but what are the SD_WinXP_4_3_3_2000 for?

anvil

[UKSupport]

Well that will work with the 4.3.3.1727 drivers - it was the original release for the X52 - but you don't need it really.

[Spksh]

Wow, my post is immortal! Hopefully it's helped a few people by now.

[real_ratibor]

I have the Saitek 3D Gold USB joystick. Previously it worked on my old PC based on P3 Tualatin processor and Intel based motherboard and I had no problems installing joystick drivers and software on WinXP. 9-10 months ago I migrated to the new PC on P4 630 and asus p5ld2 motherboard and WinXP as OS. I couldn't install the joystick that time and decided to make it out later. But now, even after careful reading of this thread and making all manipulations (a lot of times and combinations, believe), it still doesn't work at all!!! I still have the same code 10 error and I have no idea how to resolve the problem. Any suggestions?

[UKSupport]

Hi,

I'm afraid not - if the PC insists on Code 10-ing the stick then there's nothing else that can be done. Sorry, but a new stick is going to be needed.

[real_ratibor]

Well, though I did like this joystick, I could not trust Saitek products any longer. I'm going to present this one to my friend's son (luckily they are still using P3 PC). Well, I'm facing a problem of selection... But this experience tells me to read through the manufacturers' forums before buying to have less problems.

[UKSupport]

Hmmm, but to be fair, that stick has been around for over 7 years. For any PC technology to still work with modern PCs 7 years after it was originally released just isn't the norm.

All of our sticks produced since then have been designed to be USB 2.0 compliant and issues like this have not been a problem with our products since.

[Monsofo]

This fixed my windows errors as well. Please read the first post of this thread if the following info relates to you.

Here was my problem.......
(Just adding the info to allow for google etc searches)

Windows XP, Intel Core 2 duo, MSI Nvidia SLI motherboard.
Pro Gamer command unit, Evo Force, Eclipse Keyboard.

Had just built a new computer and done a fresh install of everything. Had no problems related to the PGCU. After install of the EVO force I would get a windows error report upon start up of my computer, every time. System error (102). This would happen when I would turn on my computer (or reboot). When the desktop would come up miscrosoft error reporting would say "windows has recovered from a serious error".

After turning off the power management I have no issues. I had tried the digitally signed drivers, newest driver, with-and without SST.

[Richard Cooke]

Hi All,

Problem: My Cyborg 3Dgold rudder does not input correctly on IL2. It has a permanent slight left yaw when the stick is central.

This does not occur on other games.

I have re-calibrated it and re-loaded the software to no effect.

I don't want to buy another stick unless this one is knackered.

Can anyone help please?

[Richard Cooke]

It seems I've just answered my own question!

I searched the forum and found the Saitek d/load zip file. It worked a treat and my rudder problem is solved. :)

Here is the link:

http://www.saitek.com/uk/supp/recalibration.htm