R4 Force Wheel. Gameport/USB adapter

[Aggemam]

Hi.

Like many others, i'm very displeased with the lack of support from Saitek :mad: , regarding the R4 Force wheel/winxp issue. Can anyone tell me, if a gameport/USB adapter, like this one (http://www.joy-stick.net/reviews/other/usbadapt.htm), would make it possible to use the R4 Force wheel in winxp? Never mind the FFB, just as a standard Wheel perhaps?
I ask, although i'm affraid I already know the answer, Saitek support would probably have mentioned this sollution, if it were indeed possible...

Anyone?

[UKSupport]

Indeed - if there was a solution at all then I would have posted it on the support page for the R4 on the website and on here. Sorry, but there is no way to get it running under 2000 or XP.

[GTM|Bigchief]

Is it able to get it working by doing alterations to the wheel?

[You+Me+Devil=3]

I had an R4 FF wheel and I don't think there's anything you can do to the wheel itself to make it work on Win2K or XP. It needs a driver.

Someone at Saitek once told me that the reason they couldn't make an updated driver was because of a licensing problem. Seems Saitek made the R4 under a license from M$ for the FF technology. Well, it turns out M$ didn't have the right to license Force Feedback technology that wasn't theirs and Immersion sued them over it.

Don't know if that story is true, but thats what I was told when I asked about why there would not be a new driver.

[xyr]

Originally posted by UKSupport
Sorry, but there is no way to get it running under 2000 or XP.
It turned out that the Saitek wheel has almost the same electronics as the MS one. I've took apart my wheel, examined the PCB and found 3 places for jumpers with only one connected. Interesting, isn't it?
After removing the SMD shortcut on pos. J3, the wheel was recognised as an MS wheel. :cool:

Needless to say my wheel works fine since (under win2k).
No comment...

[GTM|Bigchief]

Originally posted by UKSupport
Indeed - if there was a solution at all then I would have posted it on the support page for the R4 on the website and on here. Sorry, but there is no way to get it running under 2000 or XP.
I think you can post this solution to the support page it works great under XP too. thx xyr i think this is the best chrismas gift i got this year :)

[P-OP]

Hello to you all ,
happy owners of R4 force wheels who runs under Win XP.
Does the R4 force wheel still work with the modifications on the circuit board.No unpleasant bieffects I hope.
I would like to hear some comments before I try the modifications.
Mayby GTM Bigchief or xyr can give me some answers , grateful in advance
I have a P4 with Win XP and i would like to have the wheel working this PC as well , the old one P2 350 Win 98SE was working wery well with the wheel.
Whats the latest driver for the R4 force wheel I can update my old Pc with and can I use the same one to the new one Pc with Win XP , I tried to install the wheel on the new Pc and it didn't work , any ideas ? lets hear them.
I would like to see that Saitek took care of the update question and mayby put in downloads for older models of wheels too in their download section for an exampel R4 force wheel and with a picture of the wheel of course so I can recognize it, couldn't find it myself , it would be a good idea I think.
I bought the wheel few years ago , I spended almost 150 £ to be an owner of a R4 Force Wheel .

[GTM|Bigchief]

when you remove the jumper the wheel is found as a microsoft sidewinder wheel and works fine with the MS drivers so u don't need any saitek drivers on your XP.
I didn't use my wheel for a time so i can't say if it works like before but i think it does its job very well - also the force feedback.

sorry for the confused english I have pumped water from the cellar for the last 13 hours - time for bed :rolleyes:

[Ramjet]

Thanks for the tip on J3... I was wondering about that link for ages but my mates wouldn't let me butcher they're microsoft wheel to compare.

But i figured give it a go, got nothing to loose!

Opened it up this morning (note the pcb is under the bonnet of the wheel). Desolder J3 which is the surface mounter link resistor

will look like [000] the triple 000 means zero ohms.

If you don't know how to desolder properly please make sure you get someone who can. Too much heat can and most probably will lift printed tracks from the board!

Once the link is removed. Put it all back together and plug it in. Goto game controllers in winxp and add SideWinder (AutoDetect) and whamo! there she'll be!

Calibrate it and have some fun! Personally I modded it for Need for speed : Hot Pursuit 2 and I'm having a ball!!!

THIS MOD DOES WORK IN WINDOWS XP!

Thanks again!

Rammy
:D

[g_funk3]

Thanks XYR your the man, I am sure you made a lot of peoples gaming lifes better. And thank you Ramjet for the detailed explanation!

I have been waiting to buy a new computer until the game Racing Legends (www.west-racing.com/news.htm) comes out. But I have been really leary since that also meant I would have to buy a new wheel. I really liked my r4 wheel so much so I bought another one off of ebay when my first one died.

I hope Saitek puts this up somewhere as a solution for the XP problem. I also hope Saitek goes back to making good looking wheels and pedals like the R4.

Has anyone tried different pedals with this wheel, either other brand, or home made??

[callahann]

THANK YOU XYR

[Desmosedici]

Thank you xyr!

You made this XP-user happy!
Following your instructions I converted my R4 into a microsoft sidewinder wheel.
In my opinion the microsoft drivers doesn´t provide as good force feedback as the original Saitek drivers did, but thats a minor problem compared to the alternative (wheel not working at all).
I noticed that the sidewinder wheel carries two extra buttons compared to the R4, can anyone figure out if it´s possible to add those to the R4? Maybe the connections exists on the board?

Thanks again!

[vantorf]

:D THANK YOU, XYR
It works well under XP!!!

[Dhauzimmer]

I wonder if it's possible to make a minor change to the Microsoft .infs to make them pick up the R4 without needing to make hardware mods. If there's someone out there who's having trouble, but hasn't modded their wheel yet, give me an e-mail and I'll see what I can come up with.

-D

[xyr]

I'm glad I could help other desperate saitek owners. Problem is it's not me who should have done it.

Dhauzimmer:
I'm afraid modifying the inf files won't help here. The ms driver (msgame.sys) checks the id sent by the wheel and if it is not the value of the ms wheel, it exits.
So if you want a software solution you could
a) Modify the ms driver not to ignore the saitek id. New inf file will also be required for the new device id.
b) Write a filter driver that will change the id but will pass everything else to the ms driver.
Unfortunately I do not posess the required programming skills to do it, that's why I chose the hardware mod. This way you won't need new driver for each new os release, the wheel will work as long as the ms supports it.

[Dhauzimmer]

I could do either or both. Will download the driver and take a look.

-D

[fitterashes]

With what should i remove the link en J3 ? i m not very good on electronics. :confused:

[GTM|Bigchief]

use an soldering iron (is this the right word for "lötkolben"?) or better ask a friend who is better in electronics than u

[MRM]

I am glad I found this post. I just upgraded to XP last weekend and no working wheel. I was ready to sell mine until I saw this post. I'll be making the change to the board tonight.

[Arminator]

A friend of mine has the R4 Racing Wheel and I told him about this thread. He just wants to know if *all* buttons / levers are supported. He told me, that the MS Wheel only has 4 Buttons, and the R4 Wheel has 2 Buttons, the lever behind the wheel and the stick shift lever, which I assume is handled as 2 buttons, too.

Will this modification utilize all buttons in Win XP?

[GTM|Bigchief]

yes all 6 buttons are useable

[MRM]

I removed the chip and the wheel works fine. All buttons are working. Isn't the Internet a great thing? This saved me some money. Thanks for help to everyone with helpful input.

[Arminator]

Originally posted by GTM|Bigchief
yes all 6 buttons are useable

Yaaaay!!!! http://www.trillian.cc/forums/images/icons/emot-woot.gif

[R@tman]

Can anybody tell me, what i have to do to get to the chip?? Im noobie at technics! Can somebody describe it for me??

Kann mir irgendwer sagen, wie ich an den Chip komme! Ich hab keine Ahnung! Hab alle schrauben entfernt aber bin trotzdem nich hingekommen! Wäre ganz nett, wenns mir jemand sagen könnte!!

MfG

R@tman

[R@tman]

Is here nobody who can help me?? PLEASE!!! I want to play!!!

[PunkMonk]

Well, i couldn't find a soldering iron anywhere, i guess it's in the Garage somewhere. Anyway, I decided to attack the J3 chip with a pair of Crayola scissors :rolleyes: Which was a stupid mistake. Well, the wheel now works, strangely. I plugged it in expecting it to short circuit and blow a fuse but it didn't... the wheel aligned itself (a sight i haven't seen in about 2 years) and on the screen appeared the "New Hardware Found" thingy. It said it was a 'Microsoft SideWinder Force Feedback Wheel' and went ahead installing it, and its working fine. Except now sometimes the wheel randomly aligns to the left or right, not sure if this is because i attacked it with scissors or because my computer is ****e or what. Not really a problem because as soon as I launch the game I want to play the wheel goes right back to the center.

Anyway, so yeah. Thanks for the great mod. I'm quite pleased that I managed to get it working like that :)





P.S. Why do I always end up with about 4 screws leftover? :confused:

[griemmel]

I have got the r4 racing wheel not the force-wheel and there is no driver for win XP , too. What can I do to calibrate my wheel?

[Phantomfighter]

I have modded The R4 Racing Wheel successfully, Win XP detects it as the MS Sidewinder Force Feedback Wheel and installs it.
But I can only configurate and calibrate the wheel . But no way to test Force Feeback or anything like Configurate the Force Feedback Strenght.

The MS Sidewinder Software would do the trick but the 3.02 works just for Win 95 an win 98

and the Sidewinder software 4.0 is just for USB Controller and not for Gameport (which I have).

(Force Feedback works in Win 98 cause of the Sidewinder Software 3.02)

Is there a possibility how to get Force Feedback to work ?

[UKSupport]

This was as much support as MS provided for the gameport version of their force wheel in XP. There are no test screens for hte force feedback but you should find that it works when you go into the game. If the game has a force level adjuster then you can use that but otherwise there's no way to adjust it.

[dschingiskaan]

Originally posted by xyr
It turned out that the Saitek wheel has almost the same electronics as the MS one. I've took apart my wheel, examined the PCB and found 3 places for jumpers with only one connected. Interesting, isn't it?
After removing the SMD shortcut on pos. J3, the wheel was recognised as an MS wheel. :cool:

Needless to say my wheel works fine since (under win2k).
No comment...

OK, but how did you manage to get the PCB out of the chassis or turn it upside down without removing all the cables, too?
Maybe you understand what I mean, when you look at the picture I attached.
Any advice will be appreciated.

Thanks

[Radman]

Does jumper remove thing work on R4 racing wheel (without FF) as well?

[UKSupport]

No - there's no need to do anything like this for the R4 Non-force wheel. Just set the wheel to mode 2 and add it as a 6 button joystick and that will cover it.

[Radman]

Where can I set the wheel to mode 2? Is there a button on the wheel?

[UKSupport]

Yes, there's a switch underneath the flap on the top of the wheel's body - it's where the adjustment tool was stored when you first got it.

[Radman]

Thank you very mouch!!! You really made my week!!!:D

[gladiator]

hey i' m very glad finding posts like these!

So i like to ask if someone can tell me, if the weel after removing the jumper still works normal under Win98 and with the same drivers...

and I would like to know exacly, how I have to remove the jumper, because I don 't want to destroy my whell unnecessary!

THX exactly :) :) :)

[UKSupport]

Well theoretically it should work with the Microsoft Sidewinder drivers under Windows 98 - you can download them from Microsoft's site.

As for removal of the "jumper" - a pair of wire snips to pinch one end off (carefully, so that you don't damage the rest of the circuit) will do the job usually.

[gladiator]

BIG THX to UKSupport :) :) =)


I Think i will try to repair my whell in the next days

[Will_FG]

I actually have the sidewinder FF gameport wheel and am running Windows 2000. It looks like some people got the Saitek working under XP with FF but is the force feedback reliable? Under Win2000, my wheel sometimes gives some force feedback and the effects vary.

[GeorgeW]

I got my R4 FF wheel cheap from PC world a while ago, and when it came, it had no power suppky and no CD with it. I've used the internal power connecters from my PSU in my PC to power it, and i have removed the link, to "turn it into a Sidewinder wheel". It now works, but it centers itself to the far left and when i try to configure it for GP3, the 'fire' button activates when the wheel is turned more than about 10 degrees of true centre...Does anyone have any ideas how to stop this? I am using the microsoft sidewinder drivers and software...

[fm2209]

As I removed the jumper, I slide with the soldering gun and cutted some traces on the board (smd soldering is not my nature). I have tried to fix it, but the damage is so huge, that I can't see anymore where the traces exactly run.

I need to know the traces which go away from R78, R79 and the two very small traces from IC1, that run between the two solder joints from J1.

If someone can tell me (or better make a good picture), that I now where the traces exactly run, that would be great. I can't see enough in the posted picture in this thread, as the red circle is marked right over there.

many thanks,

f.m.

[Ramjet]

Take a look at this

http://forums.rojakpot.com/viewtopic.php?p=8328

A nice fellow by the name of reaper claiming the glory of the mod!

Come on Reaper... atleast give credit to those who write the posts rather than Copy>Paste them!

FM2209 : I have a Microsoft and Saitek FF wheel in my posession at the moment. Hopefully this weekend I'll open them both up and take some high res piccies of them both.

I'll be modding the Saitek R4 to enable a Saitek Mode and MS FF mode. And hopefully tracing the wiring for the extra 2 buttons on the MS FF wheel to add them to the R4 wheel.

Will let you all know how it turns out.

Rammy
:D

[Ramjet]

I occasionally get the odd glitch of the padel buttons activating when turning the wheel rapidly. I'm unsure if this happens to anyone else. But I think it's a small problem with EMF (Electromagnetic Fields) Being induced into the wires on the fire buttons from the Force Feedback motor. It doesn't happen often but I've noticed it on rapid movement.

Also be sure that if you've done the modification. That you haven't crimped some wires somewhere inside. Perhaps when you turn the wheel they are being pulled tight and shorting as if you were hitting the buttons?

Something to check for.

Rammy
:D

[Ramjet]

Here is a High Res pic of the R4's Motherboard.

I've highlighted the Tracks in yellow for you.

[fm2209]

@Ramjet

That's exactly what I need.

thank you!!!!

[FackingKolibri]

First, sorry for my english :rolleyes:

Well, I did the mod and I am pleased!!
In Controlpanel all Functions are working, the Breake included (but its an extra axe (?))
But in NFS2:HP2 the Brake is not noticed. All other functions are working without problems.

Is that a problem of NFS or of the Wheel itself?

[UKSupport]

NFS:HP2 is the problem. Go and get the beta patch for it from EA's site and that should help.

[FackingKolibri]

MICROSOFT (TM) RACING WHEEL PEDALS
===========================
Setting the pedals to split axis mode is not currently supported. From the controler properties in the control panel select combined axis mode.

This is from the PATCH 242 README for NFS:HP2

But there is no switch for combined mode :confused:

How can I turn it on?

[UKSupport]

The MS driver under XP doesn't allow for it but I thought that the patch should allow you to assign the pedals anyway (it's one of the things it's supposed to have fixed). Certainly I'm pretty sure it allows our R440 users to use the wheel in the game in separate pedals mode...

[FackingKolibri]

*pushing* :o

[FackingKolibri]

oh plz :(

[UKSupport]

I'm afraid it's not something that can be changed with MS's basic driver. Sorry.

[Hazza]

Hey Guys.

Ramjet and others. I am going to attempt this mod in the next couple of days. The only thing I am not sure of is where do I interrupt the track between the DSP chip (or whatever it is) and the J3. Or do I desolder the whole J3 resistor and pull it off the board.

If I have to interrupt the track/wire where is the easiest place to do it? Between the DSP and the J3 or between the J3 and the R78?

Thanks in advance.

Hazza.

[Hazza]

It's okay Ramjets webpage has been restored after his ISP lost the server earlier in the week. I got all the info I need off there.

Thanks Ramjet.

[Ramjet]

Yeah. My web space is provided by my ISP.

I believe it allows for 100Mb of usage before it cuts off?

I didn't expect the site to be hit so hard LOL :)

Since the piccies on the site total nearly 5Mb!

Removing J3 completely off the boad will enable MSFF mode

However wiring a switch on to it allows you to return to Saitek mode at the flick of a switch.

My new project is making a Racing Simulator cockpit ... and it's starting to take shape.....

If the web page is unavailable it will open up on the roll over of the month. If it's being hit too hard then I'll consider getting a real host for it. But My ISP is free atm.

Rammy

[Hazza]

Yeah Ramjet I use Bigpond aswell and it wasn't because of the bandwidth that it was offline. Telstra had a huge virus go through their email and web servers and lost alot of the personal webpages but they restored them off tape a few days ago. Their mail servers are up and down too. Trust me to find out about the saitek mod on the day the web server gets trashed haha. Oh well I got the info so thanks again.

Yeah the racing simulator cockpits are the way to go. I am doing one myself. I picked up an ex Winding Heat (similar to sega rally) arcade cockpit real cheap and am in the process of mounting my wheel, pedals and USB H pattern shifter into it.

This is the cockpit. But mine is a used one but still pretty good. I didn't get the 50" screen though because it was all burnt in and not cheap.

Hazza.

[Ramjet]

You bought a Winding Heat machine?..... OMG where'd you get one of those?!!

I loved that game. Did the arcade machine also come with the game and all the electronics, Sound system and chair?

:D I like that idea!

Have a look at my work in progress.... not quite as pro as a real one but it's got promise :D

http://www.saitekforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4306

Hmmmmmm you got me thinking now
Thanks
:D
Rammy

[Hazza]

Ramjet.

hehe.. yeah i was doing some designs up to make my own cockpit (my Dad's a carpenter and has machines that could cut all the timber in 10 minutes) but then I saw a sale on old Arcade Cabinets/Cockpits etc. So drove 5 hours to Newcastle (from Canberra) and a guy had a warehouse of stuff including Winding Heat and Daytona etc. The Winding Heat cockpit (includes the adjustible seat) was in the best condition and smaller physical size so me and my mate bought one each. The guy had the 50" rear projection screens too but they were burnt in really bad so we just took the cockpits. There is no electronics/circuit boards etc but we wanted to hook up our PC wheels/pedals and PC games to it anyway. I never actually played the arcade Winding Heat.

Your cockpit setup is looking great. I could never build something that good.

I will post a pic of my cockpit once I get the wheel in. I am putting my Logitech Formula Force in it cause it will fit better than the saitek then I can use the saitek on my computer desk and have two player races. I am having a problem getting the logitech steering wheel off the column so I can feed the column through the hole in the dash and then attach the wheel afterwards. You ever had a logitech wheel?

Hazza.

PS - If you are near Newcastle I can show you where this place is.

[Ramjet]

Hazza.

Nah I'm up on the Gold Coast.

Though I was looking at some machines at www.highway.net.au
They have a few old Sega Touring Car machines there and I was really interested in those. Again the problem would be mounting the wheel to it.

As for Logitech Wheel removal, I found a site which explained that and even sold new boss head kits to attatch new Real Steering wheels. I'll look it up and post if for ya if I can find it again?

I had a strange problem over the weekend with Midnight Club 2 and the FFB. For some reason the wheel pulls hard to the left all the time? It never used to do it but now it is intermittant in the game and will pull hard left for some reason? I reinstalled it and no difference. Reinstalled DX9b, No difference.

Perhaps a new game such as CMR3 or other has modified the FF files? I can't tell. So I disconnected the wheel. Found the sw_force.dll and sw_effect.dll and removed them. New ones were written in when I installed the wheel again. Still MC2 pulls to the left :(
It's got me beat. But all other games are fine.

Anyone know how to get a return to center spring enabled in V8 Race Driver (DTM) - Codemasters. CMR3 has the option for Center spring with the patch but Race Driver's "supposed" to but didn't.
I tried a few utilities such as RTC1.3 and it sorta worked but overrided the force effects and doubled the strength to near wrist snapping proportions.

I'll keep working on it? But no big drama on MC2... If I must reinstall windows and MC2 and find out what killed it?
Also I probably won't be playing it much with the release of Need For Speed : Underground slated for Nov 17th!!!
:D

Rammy

[Hazza]

Rammy.

Yeah highway.net.au is where we went to get the stuff. He has alot more than whats on the website. He can do shipping to anywhere though as he is an official distributor of arcade stuff. I think he said around $150 for a palet load of stuff.

Its not hard to mount the wheel into these, as the cockpit is all wooden frame so I could cut the dash out to put the wheel in but if I can keep the dash in tact and have the column come out the hole that is already there would be awesome.

About the link you had for the Logitech wheel I actually found the info I needed. And how easy it is I can't believe it. I spent 3 hours trying to get the wheel off and all it takes is a small screwdriver and some force on the face plate. doh. (http://jensschumi.bravepages.com/LogiCorner.htm)

Regarding the wheel pulling to the left, I haven't had this problem so can't help but does it happen under Win98 aswell? Both when the wheel is setup as a Saitek and a Microsoft?

Thanks again.

Hazza

[crowM]

HI!

At first i want sorry for my language (i'm Polish).

I've got problem with my wheel (with removed JP3) and Need For Speed Underground (DEMO) and Midnight Club 2 (on WIN XP).
I connect wheel, calibrate it in windows and it looks like all is OK, but when i run this games it works very very very slow and my wheel looks like not calibrate. Please help me! I waiting so long for this game and isn't working propetly. Must i buy new wheel?

God bless You

[Ramjet]

Need for Speed demo does not see the wheel correctly in drag mode (for me anyway?). The rest of NFS:U should be ok.


Midnight Club 2 should be fine except mine developed a incorrect force feedback fault for some reason though it was fine before.

Can't offer too much help as these are the issues I have on these 2 games.

rammy

[La Hai]

I removed the Jumper J3 too. Now my Problem:
I can´t start the Test (98/Win2000/XP). The MS Sidwinder 3D Pro shown as "not connected" and every 3 Seconds a second "OK"! So i can´t click the Properties! Under Win 98SE works the Wheel (wihtout configure!) as before (saitek R4 Force wheel). What is wrong?? I´ll test the wheel on 2 different Computer and 3 diffrent Soundcards (Sb/Live + Via/Onboard etc.)
Please help

[Ramjet]

I am unsure which OS your using.

Win98SE always had problems with gameport devices. I believe Microsoft even released a vjoy.vxd update which was supposed to fix timing issues with MS Sidewinder 3D Pro.
(Ms Sidewinder site has the updated VXD if you want to give it a try)

WinXP for me hads had no issues with Gameport Devices and as such the MS 3D Pro and the R4-MSFFB wheel were seen with no problems.

Check that other gamedevices such as usb joysticks or the likes are conflicting with the wheel. I know have to remove my Wingman Force 3D (USB) when wanting to use the R4 Wheel.

food for thought.

Rammy

[La Hai]

I´m using Win XP Prof. with SP1!
Maybe it´s the Soundcard? I use one of the first Creativ Soundblaster Live Cards. Which Soundcard (Gameport) You use?? Onboard Soundcard or extern? Or is your Saitek R4 the USB Version????
Hai

[Ramjet]

I'm running WinXP Pro + SP1

Sound Card: PCI SBLive! Value Edition

Saitek R4 FFB Gameport Version.

Running Latest Drivers for SBLive WinXP

I haven't had any troubles with the SBLive under winxp apart from EAX slowing down frame rates....


Rammy
http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/Ramjet/

[dsi2]

Hi RamJet and You other guys, thanks a lot for the modding advice ! Will try tonight ....
Daniel

[dsi2]

Oh yeah, I just clipped that sodlered bridge with my nail scissors and the wheel is now recognized as MS Sidewinder FF Wheel. But it doesn't work somehow. The game is Simpson's Hit+Run and as soon as I start using the wheel instead of my keyboard, the game gets all choppy and crashes me back to the desktop. Anybody got an idea what could be wrong there ?

TIA,
Daniel

My system is:
AMD 2400+ on Asrock K7VT2 with 512 MB Infineon SDRAM
Gainward GeForce 4200Ti with NVidia's new drivers 5.2.1.6
Terratec Sky (no game port)
D-Link Ethernet card
KNC TV card
Logitech PS/2 mouse
Some old keyboard
XP SP 1
DirectX 9.0b

[Ramjet]

I think the problem is these days is that software companies just can't be ****d to write good code.

A recent influx of racing games to hit the market are showing less and less effort put into PC Steering wheel support and force feedback accuracy. Some just plain out crash.

As for crashing to desktop all I can suggest is to check for patches and drivers on your soundcard.

But I fear the support for the old MS FFB wheel and R4 is getting worse and at some stage even I will upgrade.

All codemaster games have trouble with Return to centre spring enabling on FFB. (though patches and third party utilities help). Need for Speed Underground's support for the MS FFB is UNBELEIVABLY crap. Lock to lock in drag mode? makes no difference. A 5yro will win with a joypad! urggh .... My Midnight Club 2 is still corrupted force feedback even though it ran fine for months!

When I find a Steering wheel which is as stable on the table and of solid look and feel as the R4... I will buy it. Saitek's offering today is crap in the way of Wheels. They look and feel flimsy, and by looking at the forums here; they're having more trouble than we are!

Heads up Saitek. Bring back a new FFB R4 for USB!.... I got my dollars ready!

Rammy
My R4 tech page
http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/Ramjet/

[dsi2]

Rammy, thanks for Your opinion.

Originally posted by Ramjet
[B]But I fear the support for the old MS FFB wheel and R4 is getting worse and at some stage even I will upgrade.


It seemed to be a gameport issue and maybe nobody codes for gameports anymore, now that everything went USB. When I couldn't get it to work anyhow I got mad and just went out for a new wheel. Got a Logitech Formula orce GP now and it works fine. A tribute to technical progress ...
Just that R4 was the better wheel with better effects.

Regards,
Daniel

[himoz]

Hi- i am from austria and have problems with english...... now , i have also a Saitek r4 and i would mod it to run under XP, but the Platine Layout is different: please HELP!


http://www.w4lan.net/saitek.gif

[Ramjet]

Hi Himoz.

OK Here's a Picture of both PCB's.

Where J3 is on the normal PCB. We have a small black 0 ohms resistor we remove.

On your PCB. You may have a wire link or a larger resistor. The mod is the same though. Cut the wire link/resistor on J3 and your mod should work.

I've examined both PCB's from the Picture you posted and I'm certain thats the correct J3. Though like everyone here. Nobody is responsable for your mods.

Hope it helps. Good luck.

Rammy
http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/Ramjet/

[himoz]

Great! Thx for the fast Answer, i will test it on Aftenoon.

[himoz]

It works!! really it works!! thx

[Ramjet]

No problems.

Because it's a Modification. Saitek Support would normally have to refuse comment on such a mod. But there's plenty of us around to help in custom work.

Glad I could help.

Rammy
http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/Ramjet/

[hellraz3r]

realy works fine afte i did it, playing need 4 speed underground under xp :)

very good work :)

[Svullo]

Hi all!!

I've med the mod and my r4 is now working in XP but the brake is on a third axel.. does anyone know why??

[Desmosedici]

Hi!
Does anyone else get this crazy problem of having reversed throttle with their modded R4 on NfS Underground?
Makes it kind of hard to race when you must push the pedal down to slow down, and let it up to accelerate!
One solution would be to switch the cables from the pedal I guess, or maybe somebody has got a better idea?

[Hazza]

Ramjet.

You still around? Haven't been back here for ages and ages. But I wanted to see if you finished your cockpit? But it seems they nuked our cockpit simulator thread.

Hazza.

[garycroton]

Hi Ramjet
Great tip - did the mod today (down in Beechworth Victoria, Oz) on a wheel that I picked up @ a garage sale ($A30) & am having a ball with Colin McRae 04 from a magazine
Folks like you & the accessible knowledge are what makes the net such a great thing.
Many thanks!

[Ramjet]

Hi Hazza. Yeah I'm still around. My simulator has reached a stalled point. Girlfriend trouble and a big re-organisation of my life has delayed it but I've recently began work on it again.

I've sucessfully made my H-Shifter with locking gates and realistic feel. I've also managed to build the Handbrake which has a realistic latching locking mechanism. Building the Race seat these days and it's coming along great.

I'll have to modify my original design of the sim to accomodate the new 60" (thats right 152cm) LG HD LCD Rear Projection TV. True 1280X720 Widescreen gaming at it's best. I play V8 Supercars Race Driver 2 these days on it and it's life size!!!!

RE: garycroton

No Problems gary, This threads been going a while now and it's good to see more than a year later it's still helping people.

My wheel is still going strong although feeling a little sloppy now after 2 years of nearly continous usage and thrashing :)

Visit my site for more funky mods.
http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/Ramjet/


Also I found this on the Driverfiles site about the Saitek Winxp driver. The person who uploaded the Saitek.rar file to the site has actually just copied my web page and rar'ed it up. I don't know who it was, It doesn't really bother me either but a brief mention of my name and website would have been nice. But anyway here's the link if you want a local backup of my site for future reference.

http://www.driverfiles.net/page,download,17319.html

[Hazza]

Ramjet.

All sounds good man.

You will have to post some pictures of that HUGE rear projection TV with the game on display!!!! And a pic of your shifter when you finish it.

PS - Did you get the tv second hand or new? What they worth?

PPS - I thought that might have been you posting in the Toca Race Driver 2 forums hehe.

[Ramjet]

hey hazza...

yeah thats me in the Toca 2 forums... I get around a bit

The TV is new. Cost $7500 with the HD TV box too.

Will post some piccies if ppl are interested.

Shifter works great except with toca race driver 2 which doesn't have real shifter support :( but you can emulate it to make it work

Should catch up online sometime and race :)

[yeehaamcgee]

Force feedback issues.
Interesting, I've done the mod, and the wheel works fine, except now there's no force feedback at all, not even a return to center spring :confused:
At least it works(ish), Now I can have split screen racing in TRD2!!
(My other steering wheel is a Logitech Driving Force (for a playstation2) and it works fine!!!
It's areal shame about this situation, as the R4 was easily one of the best wheels I've ever used, even better than the logitech one.

[uldericom]

Great! no force feedback for my wheel now....and a modification that does'nt allow to go back win 98......great!
no one has any other great ideas?

[CiaKKi]

I applied the mod, i wiped out the 0 Ohm jumper, the wheel is working (it centers and the FF light is on) i plugged it into my mobo gamport (asusp4b533) but my win xp sp2 seems having some problem on recognizing my shiny r4 wheel...
i went into control panel under gaming devices, i added the microsoft sydewinder 3d pro (autoconfgurating) but he keeps me saying that is unplugged...

what can iy be?

mobo drivers are fully loaded...
the wheel is the only gaming device plugged into system...

thx for any help

[uldericom]

my win sp1 detect R4 modified as Ms sidewinder ff , center the wheel, but no way to have force feedback in games... :mad: any suggestion?

[UKSupport]

Hi,

You're finding yourself in the same situation as old MS wheel users - the force feedback doesn't work in all games. Uldericom, you can still use the wheel under Windows 98 - just obtain Microsoft's Sidewinder drivers and install it using them.

Ciakki, are you able to test the wheel on another PC? Do you have any other game controllers listed in the main Game Controllers window?

[Ramjet]

I'm not sure which games are causing trouble for FFB effect. But I can say that ALL Codemasters games have terrible FFB support and no center spring effects.

NFS games seem to work ok. Midnight Club 2 is excellent.

Richard Burns Rally has also been reported to work excellently with the MS/Saitek Gameport FFB wheels too!

CMR players should look for the Force feedback emulator from the tocaedit.com site. It does help.

My suggestion to all is to wire a switch over the U3 Link you've just removed. This allows you to switch back from MS mode to Saitek mode. Not sure how?
Check here
http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/Ramjet/

It is true though that sadly the gameport support is definately being overlooked now in favour of USB solutions. But even if you get the wheel to work, just even for the Kids to thrash around on. It's worth the small effort.

[RIOT]

I recently purchased one of these wheels at a rummage sale. I opened it up to do the modification, but I'm not sure if the previous owner had already tried to modify it. Where JP3 is located seemed to be a little brown, possibly from a burn. Does anyone have a before and after pic of the modification?

Also, I think it might have been previously modified because I hooked it up to my computer (XP Pro, SP2) and tried to install it as the Microsoft wheel. It shows up as a Microsoft Sidewinder 3D Pro, IIRC, which is not the wheel. It also shows not connected.

[CiaKKi]

Hi,

Ciakki, are you able to test the wheel on another PC? Do you have any other game controllers listed in the main Game Controllers window?

No, i removed my wingman rumblepad just to be sure to avoid conflicts...

i'm going to test my wheel in another pc as soon as possible

[xoom]

Hi Guys,

thankyou very much for the info on how to do this mod

I did it today and it worked perfectly 100% on the tee.

i went to sell the steering wheel a few days ago at cash converters and they were only gona give me $50 for it.

I thought before i do that i will check one last time on the net as i was searching for something like this 6-12 months ago and i didnt find anything.

Ramjet thanks heaps your site is brilliant. If i get experimental i will try the 8 button mod :D :D

[M_D]

Does the manual shifter work after the MS mod?

Cheers all

Matt

[nitemare1504]

glad to say my wheel has always worked great with xp, hope it still does. my question is can someone tell me the voltage output on the power adapter? after a recent move i have serveral which fit, but all different outputs. didn't think it would do the wheel any good to hook it up with twice the volts its suppose to have. thanks for any help on this.

[Alex Mitchell]

Power adaptor is 12 volts @ 1.2 amps, positive to centre contact, negative outer contact.

Also... with some experimenting, I found that you could force brake and accelerator onto the same axis by shorting out either J1 or J2 - can't remember which though! - it was some time ago...
This may help with some games.
Try one, then the other to find out? :rolleyes:

[skimdude]

I've got a Saitek R4 with a GamePort connector. I carefully removed the J3 'jumper', but the Sidewinder (Autodetect) won't detect my R4 wheel. It keeps saying "Not connected".

Does anyone have a R4 with gameport as well that works?
Could it be that I am using the wrong drivers?

[skimdude]

I've got a Saitek R4 with a GamePort connector. I carefully removed the J3 'jumper', but the Sidewinder (Autodetect) won't detect my R4 wheel. It keeps saying "Not connected".

Does anyone have a R4 with gameport as well that works?
Could it be that I am using the wrong drivers?

I have tried the modded Saitek R4 on two different computers, but it keeps telling me that the wheel is unplugged. The autodetect installs a SideWinder 3D Pro. I guess that's not correct either.

[Alex Mitchell]

I am assuming that you are using XP?
It is quite some time since I did this mod, and set it up under XP, but the wheel should be recognised as a "Microsoft Sidewinder Forcefeedback Wheel".
If you can't manually select this and have to rely on the driver detecting the wheel correctly, perhaps the sound card's game ports aren't supporting the digital midi in/out pins properly?
It could be that you have some midi software running in the background interfering with the data stream...? - only guessing of course!....

Best of luck, Alex

[skimdude]

I am using a gameport which is directly plugged onto my motherboard. Another (not suitable though) driver detects my wheel en detects when I disconnect it, so the port should be working. It's just that the Sidewinder driver doesn't recognize my wheel.

I will keep on trying of course! :o

[skimdude]

I have got it working, finally!
A tiny switch switches between MS and Saitek.
Thanx all!
:)

[MigKiller]

I am having the same problem. Please tell me exactly what you did.


I have got it working, finally!
A tiny switch switches between MS and Saitek.
Thanx all!
:)

[BoBTBaD]

I found myself a Saitek R4 Force wheel at a second hand shop yesterday & talked the sales guy into letting me take it for $50.00. After initially trying every driver I could think of, I found this little gem of a thread. Thanks HEAPS Ramjet for your kind work in supplying the info & a little picture of how to fix this because I tried the mod & sure enough... IT WORKED!

Details:
Win XP SP2
Gigabyte K8U Motherboard
Saitek R4 Force, Gameport connector.

Migkiller, I didn't find any switch inside the wheel, I did find the jumpers exactly as Ramjet described. I used a $2.00 soldering iron to carefully melt the solder on one side of the bridge resistor, & prised it up off the board with a fine screwdriver. Rather than applying heat to the other side, I bent it back & it fell off the board. If this mod doesn't work, I'd say there's a possibility that too much heat got onto the board when removing the bridge, breaking the IC chip that's located close to the jumper.

Thanks again guys, I'm over the moon that this worked!

[davidmiller79]

I have a Saitek, R4 Force Wheel, Game port Version.

I also have Windows XP (SP2), Motherboard with integrated sound and an old Creative Labs Live! (Value Edition) which I installed for the game port (i.e. dual sound cards).

I carried out the mod originally posted by Ramjet on:
http://www.saitekforum.com/showthread.php?t=1721

...so that I could get the Saitek wheel recognised as a Microsoft Sidewinder. This mod allows the R4 Force wheel to work in Windows XP. The wheel worked in games but I never managed to get Force Feedback working. As its Christmas, I thought I would have another play (and have another go at fixing Force Feedback).

After reading that force feedback is sent as MIDI, I disabled the MIDI device on my motherboard's integrated sound:
Start > Control Panel > System > Device Manager > Sound, Video & Game Controllers > Right click on MIDI Device > Disable

It now works with Force Feedback, and it is absolutely fantastic.

[dzikaszuja]

I have a R4 FF gameport wheel from Saitek. but i have a problem, my board is little different.
I have no problems with finding the Jumpers. but when i erased the J3 parth, i still have no results. i bought te wheel week ago on a garage sale for 6 £ and there was no power supply.


I carefully removed the J3 'jumper', but the Sidewinder (Autodetect) won't detect my R4 wheel. It keeps saying "Not connected".
http://img477.imageshack.us/img477/4088/saitekjz0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


My wheels board is the same as Himoz's

http://img361.imageshack.us/img361/1247/dsc00377pk4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


PLZ HELP

[UKSupport]

Hi,

I'm assuming you still don't have a power supply and if that's the case then that's why the wheel isn't detecting - it does need to be powered before the PC will see it. You're going to struggle to find such a power supply now though, unless Microsoft still supply them. Give them a call and ask them if they can supply a power supply for a Sidewinder Forcefeedback Wheel and they may have something that they can supply.

[armatank]

I don't have the 15 pin joystick port on my pc like many others, so I decided to buy this cable, but XP doesn't seem to recognise it.
I was thinking about buying a cheap soundcard with 15 pin connection, but I don't know if that will do the trick.
Does anyone use a common cable for this wheel or have any solution to let my R4 work?

[UKSupport]

Hi,

It will definitely only work through a gameport connection on a soundcard. If you installed a cheap soundcard that had a gameport on it then that should be fine.

[armatank]

great to hear!!
thank you for your information :)

[DjTaRsY]

Hy

I am an Hungarian user (sorry for my bad English, I learn German), and I have a R4 FF wheel. I removed J3 jumper, I plugged in, click SideWinder(autodetect) but nothing happens. I can˙t use it. Why?

[davidmiller79]

Ensure that you have followed all the instructions on Ramjet's page:
http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/Ramjet/html/saitek_ms_switch.html

Ensure that you test it by plugging the wheel in before turning your computer on.

You now need to narrow the problem down. So try testing the wheel on a friend's PC and also trying a different sound card with a games port in your PC to see if that fixes the issue. Old sound cards with game ports can be bought brand new for around 10 euros on eBay.

[DjTaRsY]

THX!!

I used a webtranslater, to read, what you wrote :). Thanks the link!